(no subject)

[rebness]

For various tedious writing reasons, I was thinking about school playground rhymes today and variations thereof in international circles. Actually, I wonder if playground rhymes vary throughout even Britain-- a lot of rhymes I knew as a child came from Victorian rhymes and many focused on aspects of Maritime life. I can't remember much from the papers I read this morning, but I can recite the verses of my favourite childhood rhymes, such as:

The Big Ships Sails on the Alley-Alley-oh
On the Mountain There Stands a Lady
The Farmer Wants a Wife
Oranges and Lemons
Ring-a-ring-o'-Rosies

If Ring-a-ring-o'-Rosies does reference the Black Death as suggested, it's strange how such a sinister and dark rhyme is still celebrated by children in the twenty-first century. The Big Ship is, well, obviously about LILIO shipping. It's a really interesting oral tradition in an age where if things are not written down, they tend to be forgotten. As a child, they're nothing more than something to skip to or to pass the lunch break, but it's interesting to look back on them now and see how something as seemingly nonsensical as Goosey Goosey Gander turns out to be about religious intolerance.

One of the most sinister things for me in Nineteen Eighty-Four was the use of the old rhyme Oranges and Lemons. Orwell references it again and again with the same sense of nostalgia an adult may remember childhood rhymes that seemed so innocent. I couldn't for the life of me remember the last couple of lines of the rhyme that Orwell kept back throughout the narrative, but when they're revealed as here comes the candle to light you to bed/here comes the chopper, to chop off your head the singular horror that Smith faces was inextricably bound up in that momentary sense of panic I remember experiencing as a child when the rhyme ended in the playground and we were chased. I think the twisting of something so bound up with childhood imagery to illustrate that horrible moment in the book is extremely effective.

So, for the purpose of both research for a Super Sekrit Project, but also for a good read, please to tell me about childhood rhymes you remember from your part of the world, or even this island for you fellow UKers. If you know of the history/social ramifications behind any, do let me know. It's interesting, innit?

Comments

Heh, you might regret asking, I'm fascinated too.

[hobbitblue.livejournal.com]

Ok, whats this LILIO stuff, I didn't realise the big ship song had a meaning? The farmer wants a wife is the last verse of The Farmer's in the dell, as far as I remember. Lets see, there was "in and out the dusty bluebells... who will be your master?" which wasn't one we tended to play ourselves on a whim like the others, but ended up being played when teachers or dinner ladies were in charge of things, had complex moving under and over joined arm things, I remember vaguely, most of these things have actions, don't they?

Oranges and lemons didn't scare me especially, I was more fascinated by the whole bell thingy. A hunting we will go.. catch a fox and put him in a box and never let him go.

Re: Goosey Gander, have you seen the episode of Sapphire and Steel featuring that one, most spooky with the constant upstairs and downstairs and soldiers marching.

I'm not so well up on songs from other countries, but I do remember a German novel by Duerrenmat where a little girl sings "Maria saB auf einem Stein..." and the glossary notes pointed out the song later talks about a boy coming in and cutting her head off or somehting equally wholesome!

Re: Heh, you might regret asking, I'm fascinated too.

[rebness.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I only learned about the LILIO one through reading an article a couple of months ago. It was right weird.

I haven't seen that episode of Sapphire and Steel, but now I feel tempted to take a look on BitLord and see what it comes up with...

That German song sounds very... edifying! LOL!

[zhonghua2000.livejournal.com]

Interesting it is... that you have me here thinking about this. :D

The first thing I notice is that we here (at least me and the ones I know) say: "Ring AROUND the Rosie..." etc. Jess of course is reciting these sorts of rhymes now so a couple I hear/see from her:

The itsy bitsy spider..
Ring around the Rosie..
London bridge is falling down.. I guess kids like to fall down.

*I* quickly recalled:

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall..
Ladybug, ladybug fly away..
Ding dong bell. Pussy's in the well..

I have NO idea what they mean. Well, except that I knew about Ring around the Rosie & the Black Death thing.

[rebness.livejournal.com]

It's interesting to note that the songs continue in America today, even if they may be subject to cultural/regional change. I don't know if Ring around the Rosie is an American change or maybe it has been imported by people who may have said the rhyme differently in another region of the UK. That said, I do know that "Ladybird" is a translation of "Ladybug."

No idea if the Pussycat rhyme means anything, though I did hear a rumour that Humpty Dumpty is about mad King George. "All the king's horses and all the king's men" is supposed to represent the courtiers who tried every means of "curing" him, to no avail. Well, so I heard. The Grand Old Duke of York was about another madman. English history! Full of crazy people!

[ladydaydream.livejournal.com]

I thought that "London Bridge is falling down" was actually about a bridge that fell down but I've also found this about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Bridge_is_falling_down

I think that Ring-a-ring-a-roses does probably originate from the Black Death. My uni dissertation was about the economic and social effects of Black Death and lots of books I read went into the meaning of the rhyme:

Ring-a-ring-a-roses = spots/boils that appeared on the face of the victim

A pocket full of poses = literally a bag containing herbs etc, which had a dual purpose; firstly it was believed that the herbs could act as an antidote and secondly it was also believed to be used to disguise the smell of the boils and pustules.

Attishoo, Attishoo - sneezing was the first sign that you had the most virulent strain of Black Death

We all fall down - if you were struck down by the most virulent strain, you were likely to die with 24-48 hours.

You probably didn't want me to share this with you, did you?

[rebness.livejournal.com]

Mummy. :(

[ladydaydream.livejournal.com]

I don't know how accurate any of this is but I also came across the following site:

http://www.rhymes.org.uk/

:)

[rebness.livejournal.com]

Rox0rs!

[saffronlie.livejournal.com]

The only one I can think of just now is "Do your ears hang low?", which is the Play School sanitised version of "Do your balls hang low?" like a regimental soldier etc. The majority of our rhymes in Australia are English as, of course, we don't have hundreds of years of history, and no enduring oral tradition in the English language. Our early bush poets have got a lot to answer for in some instances, though.

[rebness.livejournal.com]

If I look up bush poetry on Google, will I go blind?

[saffronlie.livejournal.com]

Nope! You've got no idea what I meant! Good times. I might make fun of you now.

[pandorasblog]

Well I'll be damned! In the (Christian Fellowship Church!) playgroup I went to, they encouraged us to sing that one! And scarily, I remember it all:

Do your ears hang low?
Do they waggle to and fro?
Can you tie them in a knot?
Can you tie them in a bow?
Can you throw them over your soldier like a regimental soldier?
Do your ears hang low?

Am now hysterical thinking about the other meaning. Thank you Anna. XD

Now, I do have some thoughts about other rhymes to email, and since I remember Rem posting about this kind of thing on Xanga, I'll try and dig that up too.

[peregrinuscanus.livejournal.com]

I read that The Big Ship Sails is about the Manchester Ship Canal (the ally-ally-o referring to the Canal or its nickname).

We used all the rhymes you mentioned. Goosey-goosey gander scared me anyway but esp. after Sapphire and Steel - it's even scarier in the book. We played In and Out the Dusty Bluebells, On a Mountain, and Oranges and Lemons, and Lucy Locket: Lucy Locket lost her pocket, Katy (or Kitty) Fisher found it, there was not a penny in it but a ribbon round it (then you chant 'drop it, drop it...' until the girl who's on, drops the handkerchief behind someone in the circle, they have to spot it, pick it up and chase her round to the empty place in the circle.

There were tons of skipping rhymes of course - Cowboy Joe, and I'm a Little Bumper Car, and I'm A Little GirlGuide, and All In Together, Girls, and Vote Vote Vote and tons more. Some of the less politically correct ones date back to the 1850's.